Dispute #441

Court Start Date Dispute Status Current Period Time remaining End Date
Non-Technical 2020-10-25 21:32 Already Ruled Execution Already Ruled 2020-11-03 13:58
Arbitrable Creator

Unique Votes in all the rounds

Yes No Refuse to arbitrate Pending
2 1 0 0

Round 0

Yes No Refuse to arbitrate Pending
2 1 0 0
Round 0 Vote Casting Date
Yes 2020-10-30 20:17
No 2020-10-31 01:44
Yes 2020-10-30 23:02


Evidences provided by Vagarish

Evidence #1:

Juror Request The fact that the group is private is making investigation difficult. I don't actually even have a facebook account and since this should be an open community for view-only members at least this should not be a problem. At the moment I believe the group to be a genuine community, but I am not so sure about the "high impact" part. Please open the group so that we can conduct a proper investigation.

Evidence #2:

Acceptance in the Group I just saw one juror from other country that got automatically accepted in the group. ( see attached) Hence, your Facebook profile wasn't accepted even if you answered all the 'membership questions' due to Facebook algorithm working and probably determined your account as suspicious or new or whatever. There goes my point of all members inside as legitimate and your accusation of 'not actual people' to boost numbers down the drain. If I have created all the members profile, I would have submitted the group on the first or 2nd month it was created and get the rewards for the efforts since. Correct?

Evidence #3:

Challenger's sneaky attempts to tweak listing rules in his favor Insinuating that making the group 'private' translated to "it's high impact, you don't need to see" is just plain wrong and overlooks the importance of the building a quality group from ground up on new audience and keeping them. Where in the rules that says the community you're building must not be set to private? If I instead encourage all 107 members to a chat group via Messenger, would that give a lot more value to the challenger when in fact he also needs to be invited and accepted in the chat to see the contents? Does the rules limit community creation in telegram only? NO! The challenger seems strongly advocating to spread awareness to Kleros but resents when a new audience is coming in. Does the challenger wants anyone creating a group to send first long articles to people to read so that before they jump in 'it has cultivated genuine interest' ? Wasn't the challenger new to Kleros before and was enticed with bits of bits information that caught his attention?

Evidence #4:

Resubmit with Everything Visible! I would like to make one thing clear: this isn't to say that your group is not ever going to be qualified. I highly encourage you to resubmit once everything is made visible, because in that case, there will be no argument whether it meets the listing policies if it truly does. However, this current submission should be rejected by the jurors, as in its current, hidden state, it does not meet any of the listing guidelines.

Evidence #5:

Copypasting Other Articles, No Engagement =/= Significant Expansion or Community Regarding "significantly expanding the Kleros knowledgebase": your posts in your first evidence are almost entirely just copypasting Kleros blog links or other articles, with little original explanation. Additionally, there already exists a guide in Tagalog on how to become a juror (https://bit.ly/2JebTTv), so even doing so would be copying an earlier submission. I would like to emphasize the lack of transparency. If we were able to clearly see significant engagement and an actual community, this submission would be okay. To say that "Kleros admins can investigate" is a poor argument: you're saying that it should be approved, and then only after, admins can remove it later, instead of actually going through the Curation process in which peers can judge whether it qualifies. I personally submitted a request to join the group days ago, and it was never approved, which further supports the argument that you're attempting to hide the activity of the group, or that the accounts in the group are not actual people.

Evidence #6:

Still no way to verify, only a single post with significant engagement (which didn't mention Kleros directly) To say that being able to tell whether the members of the group are legitimate, and to see the actual content is not "relevant" is absurd. In order to be high impact, it must clearly meet the guidelines. As is, it's basically the submitter saying that "it's high impact, you don't need to see". Any community needs to be transparent and open: to prevent spam, you can prevent others from posting without joining, but let people see. Compare this to the "Temple of Kleros" Discord server (https://bit.ly/3mq3XfZ) which was successfully registered: anyone with the link can join, and immediately see the activity. Furthermore, that one post with engagement doesn't "significantly expand" the knowledgebase. To be frank, it appears as though you made one post baiting people with the prospect of earning money without actually explaining what Kleros is, or cultivating genuine interest or knowledge. If people actually did care, your other posts would have engagement: they don't. Refer to the submitter's first evidence again.

Evidence #7:

Refer to this attachment instead SATISFIED THE LISTING RULES ESPECIALLY: Expand significantly the Kleros knowledge base (explaining the juror process, the flow and structure of dapps that integrate Kleros, the court process, etc). The attachment includes the stats on engagement in the group. Would you rather consider a Youtube video that just navigated on the website of Kleros instead of a group that has the step the step process and background of Kleros to entirely new audiences? Spreading awareness and keeping the new audience in the group engaged specifically to Kleros content of which they can refer to for questions in vernacular language is what makes this group qualified to HIGH IMPACT story.

Evidence #8:

public FB groups are spammy 'a significant community' needs to be a targeted community that have shown interest to Kleros and are free to leave anytime. Facebook groups are normally flooded with spammy accounts and links and one admin moderator won't be able to control it all. The community is targeted at the Philippines audience only, and has automatic approval settings for those whose in the same location. Kleros team members are able to join as well to investigate. If you are not based in the Philippines, and already part of the international telegram group, and don't speak the vernacular language , it wont be of any use to you. As you can see in the ATTACHED document, it was a gradual increase in the number of members as a result of regular promotion to other Phil-based groups that are target participants of Kleros - cryptocurrency enthusiasts, work from home , part time workers, freelancers. All of which are accounts that have expressly shown interest to know more about becoming a juror and participating in the Kleros dApps.

Evidence #9:

Challenge Justification The listing guidelines state that a valid submission "consists of the creation of a significant community". The fact that this group is completely private, where nobody other than members can see the posts or content, and that the submitter has to approve anybody before joining is suspicious. There exists no way to verify if the members are legitimate, or if there exists any sort of community at all: posts by other members, comments, discussion, sharing by members, which is not a quality of a "significant community". The submitter is attempting to hide information instead of spreading awareness of Kleros. We have to rely only on screenshots he provides as "proof" that the group is active, and even then, none of his screenshots show an actual community: there are only posts with zero comments and zero likes, seen by less than 20 people. A community needs to be transparent and open, which this is not. I urge the jurors to reject this submission in order to encourage the creation of actual clear communities.

Evidence #10:

Snapshots inside See attached document on what's posted within the private group and activities to promote to other Philippines-based groups
Check this Case on Kleros Resolve